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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've finally decided to go with an electric car. I'm having Core (IREA) look into doubling my 100a circuit from 1986, and I've had a couple quotes for electricians to replace my current panel once that happens. Quotes have been between $5K-8600. Yikes! Also, Core seems like the only electric company that doesn't provide any rebates for home charging. This is turning into an expensive prospect!
In any case, I'll likely go with 240v/50a as 60a would require its own circuit, though I'll see what the electrician says. I've already ordered a Hubbell HBL9450A 14-50r, just in case the electrician has a hard time getting them, and frankly, I would rather control the quality of the hardware close to the charger. I'll probably end up with a Chargepoint Home Flex as the final charger, though I'm a long ways from that point.
Assuming the above all works out, I'm looking at maybe a Genesis GV60 or Kia EV6, depending upon availability, though that's also up in the air. I haven't test-driven either of them yet. My commute to DTC & back is about 40mi each way, so I've also been looking at less-expensive used EVs as an option. I even looked at the Ford Lightning, though I'm not a fan of pickups, because the range and power are so good for a $40K (starting) vehicle. I would prefer to find a vehicle with at least 180-200mi range, but the used market for that is pretty slim.

Any recommendations? I'm very new to this, though I've researched it somewhat. Sorry for the open-ended question! If you have any resources, I'll be glad to hear about them.
 

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2018 Chevy Bolt EV
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Hi @jbkalla

I am just on the other side of I-25 from you, off County Line Rd.

I have driven a Bolt EV for 4+ years, was commuting the I-25/120th Ave (Thornton) and found the Bolt had more than enough range for commuting. Like you suggest, the higher priced cars seem wasteful for long commutes, I considered a Tesla Model 3 as it was really the only other EV that had enough range for my commute. But, I needed a car quickly and Model 3 had 6-8 week lead times in 2018. And the higher price of a Tesla seemed wasteful given the 30K miles per year I was putting on my car at the time (retired now).

You might reconsider the panel upgrade, that is a bit steep. If you have room for a 30A double pole breaker in the existing panel, a 24A EVSE would provide 5.76kW of charging power, enough to fully charge a Bolt's 66kWh pack in about 11-12 hours. That wouldn't put too much of a load on the main breaker. Many folks in warmer climates or older homes have laundry in the garage and can tap into dryer outlets which are typically 30A. There are even devices like Dryer Buddy which automatically switch between Dryer and EVSE to share a 30A outlet and only allow one at a time.

Many EVSEs are able to switch power levels, I believe ChargePoint Home Flex has settings for lower output levels, so it would be safe to use on a 30A circuit. In fact, on their website, they have a calculator that indicates it would add about 18 miles of range per hour on 24A which assumes efficiency numbers of about 3 mi/kWh, very attainable in most of the smaller EVs on the market today.

For the larger packs like in trucks, this might be borderline on meeting the need as they would tend to be less efficient and require more energy to recover from a daily 80 mile commute. Genesis/Kia would probably be ok. With an 80 mile commute, you are likely to only require 20-30 kWh of energy from the battery each day with most EVs, perhaps 30-40kWh from a Lightning or similar. So the 5.76kW charging solution would take about 7 hours to replenish a 40kWh daily use.

There are also DC fast chargers along the way if you fall a bit behind. You could occasionally stop at Target in Castle Rock, Walmart in Lone Tree, or Target on Arapahoe in DTC for an extra boost. And if you are fortunate, some employers have Level 2 chargers for employees that would allow you to top off while at work.

I would be happy to meet up and show you my Bolt if you think something like it would work for your commuting. The new 2023 Bolts will be sold at a lower price, $25-32K and are one of the best bargains in the market today. I found Castle Rock Chevy to be an outstanding dealer, Seth in sales is a Bolt owner and knows EVs pretty well, and their service techs are top notch, they did a flawless job on my battery replacement (due to GM's recent recall on Bolts). I have even referred a few friends to CR Chevy for their buying and pack replacements and they have been absolutely thrilled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thanks, @Arob! Good info. Unfortunately, my house is maxed-out with the 1986 100a panel (I've added A/C since I moved in), so if I ever want to charge higher than 110v/20a, I'd have to upgrade the panel. Since the electrical code now requires a shut-off, that would have to be added as well. I think all that is what added to the cost estimates.
I'll have to see what the electric company says about upgrading my line. I think my neighborhood has a lot of odd setups where properties were split and are sharing utilities. My gas line is like that, though I don't believe my electrical is.
On the plus side, the tax rebate might actually pay back what it costs me to upgrade, hopefully.
Thanks for offering to show me your Bolt! I've actually been considering the Bolt as well. I haven't quite decided what to spend on this endeavor. I hadn't realized they were lowering the price by nearly $6K! That's a great deal! Of course, Chevy no longer has the Federal tax credit, so that's a minus, but even so, it's cheaper than the EV6 by quite a bit. If I decide to look into it, I may take you up on your offer.

Edit: I did a bunch of research: The 2023 Bolt is looking good! The highest trim package is way cheaper than the Hyundai Kona Electric (in its highest trim). Not sure if I would gain anything from the Kona that's not on the Bolt. With my trade-in, I'd be looking at paying out less than $20K for a new electric car. That's very attractive compared to the Genesis, which would cost me ~$53K after the tax credit, and probably ~$43K after my trade-in. Not sure paying double is worth the 'fun drive' and quiet interior. Especially in a market where changes are happening quickly.

Also, the Kia EV6 RWD, which would be a better car than the Bolt or Kona, charges way faster and would be ~$33K after the Federal tax credit. That's also an option, as the Bolt builds I came up with would be around the same price.
 

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2018 Chevy Bolt EV
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On the plus side, the tax rebate might actually pay back what it costs me to upgrade, hopefully.
The IRS tax rebate for EV Charging equipment expired at the end of 2021. I am not aware of any other rebates that might apply to electrical work.
Unfortunately, my house is maxed-out with the 1986 100a panel (I've added A/C since I moved in), so if I ever want to charge higher than 110v/20a, I'd have to upgrade the panel. Since the electrical code now requires a shut-off, that would have to be added as well.
By maxed out, do you mean no more slots for adding breakers? Or is it Amps you are concerned with?

My panel has a 125A main breaker, and far more Amps when you add the branch breakers. That is ok, because a circuit rarely uses all of the capacity. And 240V circuits are typically intermittent use. Most circuits are rated at 125% of the actual load they will carry, and 15A circuits often use very little capacity for lighting and other low watt uses. Your AC probably won't be running overnight when the car I charging for instance. And you likely won't be doing laundry or cooking then either.

If the problem is slots, and not Amps, a sub-panel can be installed for the EVSE and perhaps a few other circuits.

My assumption is the utility service upgrade from 100A is where you are running into the emergency cutoff requirement. If the 100A service is adequate and a sub panel can give you the room for adding circuits, I doubt that would meet the requirement for a cutoff.
Edit: I did a bunch of research: The 2023 Bolt is looking good! The highest trim package is way cheaper than the Hyundai Kona Electric (in its highest trim). Not sure if I would gain anything from the Kona that's not on the Bolt. With my trade-in, I'd be looking at paying out less than $20K for a new electric car. That's very attractive compared to the Genesis, which would cost me ~$53K after the tax credit, and probably ~$43K after my trade-in. Not sure paying double is worth the 'fun drive' and quiet interior. Especially in a market where changes are happening quickly.
Bolt is definitely a bargain at new prices. 2022+ EV and EUV are a bit more refined in the interior and ride on the EUV is enhanced by a longer wheel base. The slower charging is really only a factor if you intend to do a lot of long distance trips. Personally, I have done ~9K miles on two trips so far this year and average about 30-45 minutes per charging stop. Unlike gas cars, EV trips don't follow a 100% charge at each stop cadence, all EV charge relatively slow above 80% so most of us charge to 50-60% at each stop and stop more often. The more frequent stops just happen to work well with my bladder range, I am ready to stop every 100 - 130 miles anyway, so the extra 10-20 minutes of charging on top of walking to the restroom and stretching my legs refreshes me for the next leg. It is definitely a slower pace than a gas car, but not horrible if you are not pressed for time.

For every day use (commuting), you will probably never need to do charging on the go. The AC charging at home is going to be the same on any EV for the most part, and is done while you sleep, so time isn't usually a pressing matter. When commuting 130 miles per day, it rarely took more than 4 hours to charge overnight, at 32A (max for earlier Bolts). Newer Bolts are capable of up to 48A AC charging, but with the same efficiency and pack capacity, I doubt the faster charging would ever be necessary for daily use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you! The more I research it, the better the 2023 Bolt looks, assuming I can find a way to buy it that doesn't include huge dealer markup. I planned my taxes this year to get a refund, so I wouldn't be getting the Federal tax credit.
Did your dealer mark up the car from MSRP? If not, what dealer did you go through? The Castle Rock dealer (highest-rated dealer near me) shows one car with a price of $44K+. That's crazy. I'll definitely be waiting til the 2023 model, if for no other reason than I'll be clear what pricing I'm getting. If I can get a Bolt EUV 2LT for not far over $31K, I'll be happy.
 

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2018 Chevy Bolt EV
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Thank you! The more I research it, the better the 2023 Bolt looks, assuming I can find a way to buy it that doesn't include huge dealer markup. I planned my taxes this year to get a refund, so I wouldn't be getting the Federal tax credit.
Did your dealer mark up the car from MSRP? If not, what dealer did you go through? The Castle Rock dealer (highest-rated dealer near me) shows one car with a price of $44K+. That's crazy. I'll definitely be waiting til the 2023 model, if for no other reason than I'll be clear what pricing I'm getting. If I can get a Bolt EUV 2LT for not far over $31K, I'll be happy.
I bought from Medved in Castle Rock (Now Castle Rock Chevrolet, GMC, Buick). In 2018, MSRP markups were unheard of, that is a relatively new thing.

Seth @ CR Chevy (in Sales) is a Bolt owner. I expect he will give you a straight answer.

2022 Bolts have a higher MSRP, but GM is apparently offering credits to roughly equal 2023 prices. The net cost on the one listed (in transit) is $37,770 which is pretty close to what a 2023 net cost would be with the same options.

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From Motor Trend re new pricing:

The 2023 Chevy Bolt now starts at $26,595 for the 1LT trim, and $29,795 for the 2LT trim, a massive price cut from 2022's $32,495 and $35,696 price tags.

For the 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV crossover-ish thing, the LT trim now starts at $28,195, down from $34,495, and the Premier trim now starts at $32,695, which is down from last year's $38,995. Add $495 to either's price for the EUV-only Redline Edition.
Note, these are starting prices, there are several options available that will add a bit to the price. For instance, EUV (slightly larger) can have Super Cruise, which is like the Cadillac level 2 autonomous driving package. It works on many highways, keeps the car centered in the lane and features Adaptive Cruise control that will come to a complete stop. There is also a Sun and Sound package (Sunroof + upgraded sound system), etc.

So it looks like they are not marking up MSRP, the $38, 995 starting price for 2022 EUV + $5505 options and Destination charge are all standard pricing items, not markups. Here is the Window Sticker from the CR Chevy listing, this one appears to have all of the bells and whistles:

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RE: Tax Incentives - the way it works for federal taxes is an offset to taxable income, refund shouldn't be considered in the analysis. For instance, in 2018 when I bought mine, I had about 2K in refund before factoring in the $7500 credit. My Taxable Income was greater than $7500, so I qualified for the full credit. My net refund was $7500 + ~$2000. The CO credit is regardless of taxable income.

In your analysis, something to keep in mind is the use case for the car. Bolt EV is about 6" shorter, a little more efficient (weight), but otherwise mechanically identical. Some of the EUV options are not be available on EV, like Super Cruise. Reality is, if you are primarily buying a commuter car, EV is probably a better fit, Super Cruise would mainly be a nice feature for long road trips, not necessarily something you would use commuting. But, Bolts are notorious for relatively slower DC charging speeds so if your use case is a lot of road trips, Bolt is not necessarily the best option.
 
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